Space Marine Rumours

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Steve
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Space Marine Rumours

Post by Steve » Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:58 pm

Brimstone - warseer
HQ
Chapter Master
- Ws6 Bs5 S4 T4 W3 I5 A4 Ld10 Sv3+
- Has a bolter and a bolt pistol or ccw.
- Has an Iron Halo. Keeps the Iron Halo in Terminator armour.
- May take a Relic blade and Storm Shield. Relic Blade replaces bolt pistol/CCW. I infer from this that the Storm Shield replaces the bolter.
- May take Artificer Armour.
- May take Terminator armour, Jump Pack or a Bike.
- Terminator armour replaces existing wargear (except Iron Halo). Includes a power sword.
- May not take a relic blade with Terminator armour.
- Has around 20 Options
- Gives a one shot Orbital Strike which is S10 Ap1.
- Has a Bolter, may upgrade to Storm Bolter, Combi Plasma, Combi Melta, Combi Grenade Launcher
- May replace Bolt pistol and CCW for pair of Lightning Claws or a Relic Blade

Captain
- Ws6 Bs5 S4 T4 W3 I5 A3 Ld10 Sv 3+
- Has a bolter and a bolt pistol or ccw.
- Has an Iron Halo. Keeps the Iron Halo in Terminator armour.
- May take a Relic blade and Storm Shield. Relic Blade replaces bolt pistol/CCW. I infer from this that the Storm Shield replaces the bolter.
- May take Artificer Armour.
- May take Terminator armour, Jump Pack or a Bike.
- Terminator armour replaces existing wargear (except Iron Halo). Includes a power sword.
- May not take a relic blade with Terminator armour.
- If he takes a bike, Bikes may be taken as Troops
- Much the same options as above, does not have the orbital strike.

- Chaplain
- Ws5 Bs4 S4 T4 W2 I4 A2 Ld10 Sv3+
- Price is about the same.
- Comes with Crozius and Rosarius
- Still allows rerolls to hit.
- Makes unit with him Fearless
- Can replace his bolter with storm, combi-, powerfist, plasma pistol.
- When taking terminator armour he replaces ?power armour, boltgun, frag and krak grenades for Terminator armour and? one shooting weapon.

Librarian
- Ws5 Bs4 S4 T4 W2 I4 A2 Ld10 Sv3+
- Has gotten cheaper.
- Comes with Force weapon and Psychic Hood
- May have 2 powers.
- May be upgraded to an Epistolary which allows the use of two powers a turn. Apparently this is expensive.
- Psychic hood now has a range of 24" (whether it means that the power is within 24", or the Psyker I dont know)
- 9 powers:
Avenger - essentially an AP3 heavy flamer,
Force Dome - 5+ invulnerable for Librarian and squad until end of next player turn,
Gate of Infinity - Librarian and squad Deep Strike back within 24", but with minor risk...,
Machine Curse - shooting attack causing Glancing Hit on 1 vehicle within 24",
Might of the Ancients - Librarian gains strength 6 and rolls 2d6 armour penetration.
Null Zone - all enemy units within 24" re-roll successul invulnerable saves for rest of player turn ,
Smite - 12" range, assault 4 St4 AP2,
Quickening - gains Fleet and Ini.10,
Vortex of Doom - 12" St10 AP1 Heavy1 Blast...failed test = blast centred on Librarian without scatter.

Master of the Forge
- Ws4 Bs5 S4 T4 W2 In4 A2 Ld10 Sv2+
- Comes with Servo Harness
- May take a bike.
- May replace Servo Harness with a Conversion beamer which gets stronger and more powerful the further away he is firing, in three stages. Maxes out at S10 Ap1 Large blast at 72"
- May take a bike with the conversion beamer or servo harness.
- Allows Dreadnaughts to be taken as Elites AND heavy support if he is there.

Honour Guard (?-10)
- Ws4 Bs4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A2 Ld10 Sv2+ 30+ points as standard.
- Can only be taken if a Chapter Master is present in the army.
- Artificer Armour and power weapon as standard.
- Can take Relic Blades which are a two handed power weapon that gives St6.
- Can take Aux. Grenade launchers.
- One may take a Chapter Standard which, if it still has the same rules as now, gives them Counter attack.
- They may take a Chapter Champion, Champion is WS 5.
- Champion may take a thunder hammer.
- Chapter Champion must direct attacks against enemy Independant characters if he can.
- May NOT take Storm Shields.

Command Squad:
- May only be taken by captains.
- 4 vets and 1 apothecary, Company Champion is an optional upgrade for one model.
- Chainsword and either bolter or pistol as standard.
- They can have bikes.
- Any can replace pistol or sword with: Storm Bolter, Flamer, Plasma gun, Meltagun, Combi-whatever, power sword or fist, lightning claw, thunder hammer.
- Pistol can be replaced with Plasma Pistol.
- Melta bombs and Storm Shields can be taken by anyone.
- Apothecary gives the unit Feel no pain
- One may take a Company Standard which, if it still has the same rules as now, gives them Counter attack.

Kor?Sarro Khan, Captain of the White Scars 3rd Company
- Ws6 Bs5 S4 T4 W3 In5 At3 Ld10 Sv3+
- Gives models in his unit hit and run and Furious Charge.
- Moondrakkan is a bike he may take. It?s a bike which can use the Run ability and can also Fleet
- Moonfang- A Power sword. Any 6?s on the to wound roll become Instant Death.
- May exchange Chapter Tactics for Outflank.

Kayvaan Shrike
- Ws6 Bs5 S4 T4 W3 In5 At3 Ld10 Sv3+
- Jump pack, Iron Halo and master crafted rending lightning claws.
- May exchange Chapter Tactics for Fleet.
- He has Infiltrate and gives it to his unit.

Pedro Cantor
- Ws6 Bs5 S4 T4 W4 In5 At4 Ld10 Sv2+
- Storm Bolter (Assault 4 and AP 4) and Powerfist
- Sternguard in his army count as Scoring units
- May exchange Chapter Tactics for Stubborn.
- All friendly units within 12? receive +1 attack.

Marneus Calgar
- Ws6 Bs5 S4 T4 W4 In5 At4 Ld10 Sv2+
- Can be fielded in either power armour or terminator armour. Has an Iron Halo with either.
- 2 Powerfists and a Stormbolter (Assault 4 Ap 2)
- He has a power weapon which he is allowed to use (only when in artificer Armour?)
- Eternal warrior.
- His Chapter Tactics allows his army to choose to pass or fail any Ld tests.
- May reroll any failed to wound rolls in both shooting and hand to hand.
- May take 3 squads of Honour Guard, if they are all 10 man. These do not take up FOC slots.

Chaplain Cassius
- Ws5 Bs4 S4 T6(!) W2 In5 At3 Ld10 Sv 3+
- Feel No pain
- New background.

Chief Librarian Tigurius
- Knows all(!) the psychic powers available to the marines.
- May use 3 powers per turn.
- Allows army to reroll any reserve rolls.

Captain Lysander
- Ws6 Bs5 S4 T4 W3 In4 At4 Ld10 Sv2+
- Thunder hammer is Master Crafted and gives Lysander S10, he also adds +1 to the damage against vehicles
- Storm Shield (3+ invulnerable save for him)
- Eternal Warrior (Again?!)
- Bolter Drill- The Squad he is with is allowed to reroll misses with Bolters, bolt pistols, storm bolters and heavy bolters.
- Allows one piece of terrain to be fortified, to give +1 to its normal cover save.
- May exchange Chapter Tactics for Stubborn.

Captain Sicarius
- Ws6 Bs5 S4 T4 W3 In4 At3 Ld10 Sv3+
- 1 tactical squad gets Counterattack, Infiltrate, Scout or Tank hunters for free.
- An army led by captain Sicarius may re-roll the dice when attempting to seize the initiative.
- Blister pack allows for bare head & helmet in hand or wearing helmet with plasma pistol in hand.
- His mantle gives him Feel no pain(?)
- Is able to kill a Wraithlord in one hit with his wargear(?)

-Vulkan He'stan
- Ws6 Bs5 S4 T4 W3 In4 At3 Ld10 Sv2+
- Chapter tactics allows all meltas and flamers to become twin linked and all Thunder hammers to become Master Crafted.
- 3+ invulnerable (GAH!)
- Heavy Flamer (which rerolls to wound)
- S6 Power weapon, Master Crafted

Brother Chronus
- Upgrade for a Space Marine Vehicle
- Gives it Bs5 and allows it to ignore Crew Stunned and Crew Shaken results.
- If vehicle is destroyed he can scurry away and crew another one.

Scout Sergeant Telion
- Upgrade for Scout Squad
- Can give his BS of 6 to another scout in the unit.
- Armed with a long range 'stalker' pattern boltgun with the pinning and rending special rules.

Elites
Sternguard Veterans (5-10):
- Ws4 Bs4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A2 Ld9 Sv3+
- Come with Bolters and 4 Kinds of Specialised round
- Dragonfire bolts- Normal Bolter, Ignores cover
- Hellfire Rounds- wound on a 2+.
- Kraken bolts- 30? range, S4 Ap4 Rapid Fire
- Vengeance rounds- 18? range, S4 Ap3, Rapid Fire, Gets hot
- Can Upgrade bolters to Storm Bolters (lose the specialist rounds)
- Can take Combi weapons (keep the rounds).
- Can also take from a small list of special and Heavy Weapons (Flamers, Heavy flamers and such.)
- One of the Sternguard can take a Powerfist or Power weapon
- They may choose which round to use each turn.

Dreadnaught
- DCCW and multimelta as standard.
- May replace multimelta with TL heavy flamer, TL heavy bolter, TL autocannon, plasma cannon, assault cannon, TL lascannon.
- May replace DCCW with TL autocannon or missile launcher.
- May take twin DCCW's or twin autocannons.

Venerable Dreadnaught:
WS and BS 5, with most of the Dreadnaught's basic weapons options.

Ironclad Dreadnaught:
Basic Dreadnaught Stats with front and Side armour 13.
- Probably comes with a Heavy Flamer rather than a Storm Bolter
- Can take a Hunter Killer
- Has Move through Cover.

Terminators(5-10)
- Basic Terminators just like now.
- Cyclone Now Heavy 2
- 1 Heavy weapon, 2nd may be purchased if squad has 10 models.

Assault Terminators(5-10)
- As now.

Techmarine
- Comes with a 2+ save.
- May take a bike.
- Allows one piece of Cover in his deployment zone become +1 to its cover save.
- Still has servitors. May choose to leave them.

Legion of the Damned
- WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A2 Ld10 Sv 3+ invulnerable
- Their Sergeant has Ws5 and may take chainsword, combi-stuff, storm bolter, plasma pistol, power weapon, power fist.
- They always Deep Strike, but reroll scatter if they want.
- May take special and/or heavy weapon.


Troops
Tactical Marines(5-10):
- Start at 4 marines and a sarge for 90 points, full squad is 165.
- Bolter, Polt Pistol, Frag and Krak grenades as standard. (NB: they do NOT have a CCW)
- Sergeant is included in cost, may replace bolter and/or pistol with chainsword, combi-stuff, Storm bolter, plasma pistol, power weapon or fist.
- Variable squad sizes are possible.
- Special and Heavy weapons are unavailable unless there are 10 marines in the unit, but then they get free Flamer and a free Multimelta or Heavy Bolter or Missile Launcher. Meltagun- 5 points, Plasmagun 10, Lascannon- 10, Plasma cannon- 5
- Sarge can take Power weapon, Power Fist, Lightning Claw, Plasma Pistol, Storm Bolter, Combi Flamer, Combi Plasma, Combi Melta (and maybe combi grenade Launcher)

Scouts
- Ws3 Bs3 S4 T4 W1 In4 A1 Ld8 Sv4+
- Sergeant is WS4, BS4.
- Sergeant may take combi-weapon, plasma pistol, power weapon or powerfist. (Or standard scout gear).
- Shotguns probably S4
- May be an option for Teleport Homers.
- Their Heavy bolter can take hellfire Rounds
- Squads can be equipped with camo cloaks, granting the Stealth USR.

Bikes
- Requires a Captain on a bike.
- Requires 5+ bikes. For details of bikes see Fast Attack options.

Rhino:
- Probably will drop to 35 points ala Dark Angels and Blood Angels.

Razorback:
- Comes with heavy bolter included in cost.
- May upgrade to: twin-linked heavy flamer, twin-linked assault cannon, twin-linked lascannon, lascannon and twin-linked plasmagun.

Drop Pod:
- Drop pod assault means that Half of all Drop pods come in on the First turn (GW doesnt want Deep striking armies to come on turn 2 or later...understandable)
- Drop pods in the first wave can act as guiding beacons for pods in the Second wave.
- Costed at slightly more than 2 marines.
- Holds 12 marines or 6 terminators or 1 Dreadnought or 1 thunderfire cannon.
- Drop pod deathwind launcher = range 12", St5 AP- heavy 1 large blast.

Fast Attack
Bikes (3-8+trike):
- May combat squad, requires 8 bikes plus an attack bike. Divides into 4B/4B+1AB.
- Sergeant may take plasma pistol, power weapon, power fist, combi-stuff.

Attack Bikes (1-3):
- Must pay for Multi-Melta.

Scout Bikes (3-10):
- Can upgrade bike with a grenade launcher
- Can booby trap areas of terrain with hazardous cluster mines.
- Sergeants can be equipped with locater beacons. These function as a teleport homer for any deep-striking unit (drop pods, jum packs etc.)

Assault Marines (5-10):
- Sergeant may take a Storm shield, plasma pistol, power weapon, lightning claw, power fist, thunder hammer, pair of claws.
- Only sergeant may have melta-bombs.
- Special weapons are 1 for every 5 models
- Specials include flamers and plasma pistols.
- May remove jump packs and get a free rhino, razorback or drop pod in return.

Vanguard Veterans (5-10):
- Ws4 Bs4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A2 Ld9 Sv3+
- Sergeant may take a Relic blade and Storm Shield, may take twin-lightning claws.
- Come with Bolt Pistol and Close Combat weapon, "any model may replace" pistol and/or chainsword with Storm shield, plasma pistol, power weapon, lightning claw, power fist, thunder hammer.
- Jump packs are an upgrade which gives them the Heroic Intervention rule. May take a transport instead.
- Heroic Intervention allows them to assault the turn they Deep strike. It must be declared before the deep strike is attempted and they may not fire the turn they land.

Land Speeders (1-3): Pretty much as now.
- Typhoon missile launchers fire as Heavy 2 missile launchers.

Land Speeder Storm:
- Has a Jammer which disrupts deep striking close by.
- Scouts charging from it -2 from the enemy Ld.
- Carries 5 scouts (and scouts only) and counts as Open Topped

Heavy Support
Thunderfire Cannon
- Has techmarine crew.
- Can fire in 3 different ways (all heavy 4): St 6 AP5 blast, St 5 AP6 blast ignores cover, St 4 AP- blast causes difficult terrain test in next turn/dangerous terrain for vehicles(inc. skimmers)
- May be mounted in a Drop Pod.
- Techmarine attendant can bolster defences, providing a 1 point bonus to the cover save of a single ruin in the Space Marine deployment area.

Predator: Pretty much how it is in Codex: Blood Angels (i.e. expensive)

Vindicator:
- Siege Shield allows it to auto-pass terrain tests.

Devastators:
- Sergeant has a Signum, allows one Marine to fire at BS 5.
- Sergeant may take storm bolter, plasma pistol, power weapon, combi-stuff, power fist, chainsword.

Whirlwind:
- Has BA/DA style ammo. (Including incendiary?)

Land Raider
- Machine spirit allows an extra weapon than allowed to be shot at any available target.
- Multi Melta is now a pintle option for all variants.
- Can Carry 12 models

Land Raider Crusader
- Machine spirit as above
- Frag Launchers as normal (useful too, now.)
- can carry 16 Models

Land Raider Redeemer
- Machine Spirit as normal
- Redeemer cannon: Range- Template S6 Ap3 Heavy 1
- Transport Capacity: 12 models


Not unit specific:
Decision to split in to combat squads is made at the time each unit is deployed or when a unit disembarks from its Drop Pod.
Combat Tactics ? allows any unit to automatically fail any Morale Check it takes (from shooting and CC).
Combat shields now give a 6+ invulnerable save.
Storm shields now give a 3+ invulnerable save.
Aux. Grenade launchers are short range, can fire in tandem with another weapon.
All sergeants are veterans now, so are just called sergeants.

Thanks to VerifiablySane and PlasticRat of warseer, and Ignatius of B&C for the information.

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Steve
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Post by Steve » Thu Aug 14, 2008 3:09 pm

?Apothecary gives the unit Feel no pain? - Blood Angels/Dark Angels better get this also
?Sergeant has a Signum, allows one Marine to fire at BS 5? - Blood Angels/Dark Angels better get this also
?Storm shields now give a 3+ invulnerable save.? - Wow?
:-)

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Morbidangel
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Post by Morbidangel » Thu Aug 14, 2008 3:52 pm

if you want those steve.....play vanilla marines. lol

So much goodness in the new dex. Chalk full of uber "cheese", but also means those characters aren't gonna be cheap. OH well, guess i don't have to take them. Nice that the captain has is rightful place as one of the badest mutha's in the company/chapter. Looks nasty. Chapter master getting orbital strike, very nice, but sounds pricy too.
Signums on devestators and one can use bs of 5......praise the all mighty emperor. Can someone tell me why take a predator now?? Please i really want to know why i would want to take an expensive tank that is just gonna sit there when i can field a devestator squad for about the same price, get about as many shots and now one of them at bs of 5.

Crusaders hopefully came down a little in price now that the multi melta isn't standard. Again so much nice stuff. Guess i will definitly have to invest in this book when it comes out so i can reorganize my marines.
Lunar Drakes(marines): 2/4/0
Total Points Painted: about 1500 of 6500

Tau, Elsy'eir sept: 0/0/0
Total Points Painted: 350 of 1500

Clan Sarz-Skaven: 0/0/0
Total Points Painted: 0 of 3k
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Yuri
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Post by Yuri » Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:05 pm

FUCK Space Marines!

I got to the White Scars HQ guy and stopped reading. If Dark Angels don't get a serious overhaul in FAQs when this new codex comes out, I really don't know what I will do.
"Women are like Voltron; the more you can hook up the better."
"Since when is stealing a rhinoceros considered evil?"

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tyson
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Post by tyson » Thu Aug 14, 2008 11:08 pm

Marines needed a new codex like Walmart needs another billion dollars :D or like Steve needs a new army :wink: The IG codex is complex, unlike the current rules and design trend, and hasn't seen an update since before the last SM codex. And what about the 40k Dark Elf codex? Damn u GW! :evil: !
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NegativeK
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Post by NegativeK » Thu Aug 14, 2008 11:16 pm

Complaining about GW putting a lot of focus into Space Marines is like complaining about Microsoft focusing on Windows. =p
Sun Tzu said: "Now the general who wins a battle makes many calculations in his temple ere the battle is fought. The general who loses a battle makes but few calculations beforehand."

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Chief Nocahoma
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Post by Chief Nocahoma » Thu Aug 14, 2008 11:38 pm

Based on those rumors it looks like they are a tad bit light on the special characters. :roll:

The Librarian has always been my personal favorite. In the grim darkness of the far future they should have changed the name to "Media Specialist" like they did in the Clarke County School District.

Ah the ubiquitous space marine ...... genetically superior 7 foot tall supermen with iron man's armor and oversized guns....every budding 12 year old nerd's wet dream.

Seriously, how many months after this codex is released before SM get another?
Evangelizing the dirty round basers... carrying the WFB word from nerd to nerd!

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Morbidangel
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Post by Morbidangel » Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:37 am

OK....btw the way, they are simply getting rid of the traits system. Also marines are there number one selling army, so it makes since for them to make them good. Also, the IG are getting a new codex by the end of the year, so using there solid dex as a good reference is kinda valid now. ALso Dark Eldar are in the works, but who knows when those will be finished. GW plans on redoing the necron codex which by far is the one army who needs an overhaul since the new rules. For starters, the necrons can't penetrate any vehicles anymore. All they can do all day is glance and glance and glance.

But thats beside the point. What gw has done however, is update codexes, and they update new codexs, and they make newer codexs better. They need to create a stopping point on there army changes, or seriously update all the marines at once. Yes i agree, blood angels and darkangels need a minor update, chaos marines need to be redone completely. But its gonna take them time to get around to it. People are just gonna complain in the long run, but look at it this way guys. The new marines have some drawbacks. No more 5 man terminators with 2 assault cannons. And tactical squads can't even field 5 man squads with a single special weapon or heavy. They will only get to field them at 10 man, and granted alot of options are free, but they gotta take 10 marines to do it. Yes those 10 marines get to spit up into 5 man groups. But they still have to field the points.

Also, scouts bs dropped, but they probably wont see a points drop in price. Most of those special characters are overpriced. From the way it looks, they made marines well..marines. They sound uber, they are probably nasty, they got some special trickes, but in the end, they are an elite army and you wont see as many on the board, especially if you want to take all those nasty tricks.
Lunar Drakes(marines): 2/4/0
Total Points Painted: about 1500 of 6500

Tau, Elsy'eir sept: 0/0/0
Total Points Painted: 350 of 1500

Clan Sarz-Skaven: 0/0/0
Total Points Painted: 0 of 3k
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Post by NegativeK » Fri Aug 15, 2008 8:22 am

Chief Nocahoma wrote:The Librarian has always been my personal favorite. In the grim darkness of the far future they should have changed the name to "Media Specialist" like they did in the Clarke County School District.
Hah! I was going to comment on how the Space Marine psyker became better than the previous best in the 40K universe (Eldar Farseers,) but all of that is balanced out now.

Mephiston, Lord of Death, Media Specialist of the dreaded Blood Angels.
Sun Tzu said: "Now the general who wins a battle makes many calculations in his temple ere the battle is fought. The general who loses a battle makes but few calculations beforehand."

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sinergy
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Post by sinergy » Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:15 pm

Looks like the space wolves get the shaft at the expense of vanilla...Again.
Anyone up for 40k sunday? I'm doing some remodeling so at least my force will look cool (I hope).
Two editions behind and going strong.

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Steve
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Post by Steve » Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:12 pm

There is a nice thread going on on warseer about this:

http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=157795

Favorite quote:
Its not so much that it replaces the DA, more like it shows it up, trumps it, kicks it to the curb and laughs as it takes it's girl;

Speaking about the new C:SM :D :D

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Yuri
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Post by Yuri » Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:47 pm

Yea, that's about how I feel.
"Women are like Voltron; the more you can hook up the better."
"Since when is stealing a rhinoceros considered evil?"

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Morbidangel
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Post by Morbidangel » Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:16 pm

just hope that the dark angels girl isn't one of those little watchers in the dark. Much rather have a sister repentia, as long as she ditches that giant repentia chain sword. YEAH Baby, is that a chain sword or you just happy to see me!!!!
Lunar Drakes(marines): 2/4/0
Total Points Painted: about 1500 of 6500

Tau, Elsy'eir sept: 0/0/0
Total Points Painted: 350 of 1500

Clan Sarz-Skaven: 0/0/0
Total Points Painted: 0 of 3k
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Yuri
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Post by Yuri » Fri Aug 15, 2008 10:58 pm

Morbidangel wrote:just hope that the dark angels girl isn't one of those little watchers in the dark. Much rather have a sister repentia, as long as she ditches that giant repentia chain sword. YEAH Baby, is that a chain sword or you just happy to see me!!!!
What?
"Women are like Voltron; the more you can hook up the better."
"Since when is stealing a rhinoceros considered evil?"

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Steve
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Post by Steve » Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:46 am

According to Dakka Dakka, Phil Kelly at GD LA has now officially stated that there will *NOT* be an FAQ to update other SM's wargear, transport capacity, etc
Bullshit. Guess I'll be using the new marine Codex.

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