4th ed. Announced TODAY

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CleverName
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4th ed. Announced TODAY

Post by CleverName » Thu Aug 16, 2007 4:27 pm

The announcement has been made:

Today, Wizards of the Coast confirms that the new edition will launch in May 2008 with the release of the D&D Player's Handbook.

The 4th Edition Dungeons & Dragons game includes elements familiar to current D&D players, including illustrated rulebooks and pre-painted plastic miniatures. Also releasing next year will be new web-based tools and online community forums through the brand-new Dungeons & Dragons Insider (D&D Insider) digital offering. D&D Insider lowers the barriers of entry for new players while simultaneously offering the depth of play that appeal to veteran players.

The 4th Edition rules emphasize faster game play, offer exciting new character options, and reduce the amount of "prep time" needed to run the game. D&D Insider includes a character creator that lets players design and equip their D&D characters, dungeon- and adventure-building tools for Dungeon Masters, online magazine content, and a digital game table that lets you play 24/7 on the internet ? the perfect option for anyone who can't find time to get together.

"We've been gathering player feedback for eight years," said Bill Slavicsek, R&D Director of Roleplaying and Miniatures Games at Wizards of the Coast. "Fourth Edition streamlines parts of the D&D game that are too complex, while enhancing the overall play experience. At its heart, it's still a tabletop game experience. However, D&D Insider makes it easier for players to create characters, run their games, and interact with the rest of the D&D community."

Wizards of the Coast will release two 4th Edition preview books in December and January ? Wizards Presents: Classes and Races and Wizards Presents: Worlds and Monsters. The full scope of 4th Edition books, miniatures, and adventures will be available in the spring and summer of 2008.

8)

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Post by Steve » Thu Aug 16, 2007 4:33 pm

http://ogrecave.com/2007/08/16/wotc-pos ... #more-2526

http://ww2.wizards.com/Company/Press/?doc=20070816b

Thats all we need, to have to learn the rules all over again, AGAIN! :roll: :roll:

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Post by Cripple X » Thu Aug 16, 2007 4:36 pm

This is crap. We don't need a rules revision every 3 years.
Last edited by Cripple X on Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by NegativeK » Thu Aug 16, 2007 4:44 pm

I'm a little intrigued as to what it'll look like. I doubt I'll play it, but I'd love to see if they fix some of the complaints I have with it.
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Post by kbm99 » Thu Aug 16, 2007 4:57 pm

Cripple X wrote:This is crap. We don't need a rules revision ever 3 years.

Part of the reason TSR failed was precisely because they *didn't* revise the rules. We may not need a new edition every three years - 3rd edition is closer to 8 years old at any rate - but we do need ongoing input and revision of the rules if our hobby is going to prosper.

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Post by Cripple X » Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:00 pm

kbm99 wrote:
Cripple X wrote:This is crap. We don't need a rules revision ever 3 years.

Part of the reason TSR failed was precisely because they *didn't* revise the rules. We may not need a new edition every three years - 3rd edition is closer to 8 years old at any rate - but we do need ongoing input and revision of the rules if our hobby is going to prosper.
Yes, but technically 3rd is two editions. 3.0 and 3.5. So, the current edition of the rules is like four years old? I just feel like I'm being milked when I have to buy a new set of rulebooks, practically every time I turn around.

I'm not saying don't revise the rules. I just feel they're using this as a mechanism to make profit because their splat books don't sell, probably due to poor playtesting and bad editing.

As for "streamlining", if D&D's rules crunch bothers you that much try playing a less rules intesive system. I'd hardily recommend FATE. I absolutely adore it.

I am interested to see how they revise the rules, but they darn sure better stick around a while. I'm afraid its gonna turn into 4.25 six months after release and then 4.40 some months after that , 4.50, 4.55 and so on ad infinitum. Just so they can sell more books.

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Post by CCCG » Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:20 pm

Cripple X wrote:This is crap. We don't need a rules revision ever 3 years.
Oh yes you do.

If Companies don't reinvent their product every few years then they don't keep you paying for stuff. It doesn't benefit WOTC that you bought their core books 3 years ago. It's what you've bought from them lately that matters.

This is why Magic the Gathering phases cards out of legality every year, and Why GW puts out an updated codex every 3 months.
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Post by Aelies » Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:36 pm

It's just really sad. :(
OoOoOoOo what does this button do.

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Post by Cripple X » Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:47 pm

CCCG wrote:
Cripple X wrote:This is crap. We don't need a rules revision ever 3 years.
Oh yes you do.

If Companies don't reinvent their product every few years then they don't keep you paying for stuff. It doesn't benefit WOTC that you bought their core books 3 years ago. It's what you've bought from them lately that matters.

This is why Magic the Gathering phases cards out of legality every year, and Why GW puts out an updated codex every 3 months.
Yes, but those have a much longer turn around. GW has a five year minimum for a codex turn around and its been almost a decade for some. So about 6-8 years for a codex revision. Plus, its what $20 for a new codex? WotC is charging five times that much in less than half the time.

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Post by CCCG » Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:03 pm

Cripple X wrote: Yes, but those have a much longer turn around. GW has a five year minimum for a codex turn around and its been almost a decade for some. So about 6-8 years for a codex revision. Plus, its what $20 for a new codex? WotC is charging five times that much in less than half the time.
The first time ever Games Workshop has been lauded for it's reasonable pricing. :D

It may be five years between individual armies, but something is getting a new update every three months, which means that there is always something new for some group to buy. And you are forgetting with GW all the new models that people are going to be buying to update their armies. It's not just a new Codex.

It's different with a role-playing game. The only books that everybody will want to buy are new core books. The setting books, and the individual class books don't generate nearly the sales that the core books do.
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Post by Cripple X » Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:34 pm

CCCG wrote:
Cripple X wrote: Yes, but those have a much longer turn around. GW has a five year minimum for a codex turn around and its been almost a decade for some. So about 6-8 years for a codex revision. Plus, its what $20 for a new codex? WotC is charging five times that much in less than half the time.
The first time ever Games Workshop has been lauded for it's reasonable pricing. :D
Hardly. I was just making the point that GW revisions aren't as expensive as a Core Rules Update. Your models don't become obsolete, just because new ones are released.

I agree with you about the core rulebooks Jon, it just seems to me that WotC is abusing the shit out of it to make money. Three sets of Core rules in eight years? It just seems to be getting out-of-hand. Just when you've finally memorized all of those obscure rules, we change 'em!

I'd buy their splatbooks if they were worth it, but a lot of the one's I have (mostly 3.0) were not very balanced and definately lacked an editor! That said, I do own a few Eberron books and definately like their quality. If WotC would put out more quality material, they wouldn't have to revise the rules so frequently.

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Post by NegativeK » Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:39 pm

D&D really is a bit of the exception to the RPG genre. Smaller game lines (pretty much everything _except_ D&D) release core rules publications much less frequently - but they generally release other essentials on a regular basis. Examples include World of Darkness with their core three (Vampire, Werewolf, and Mage,) but the huge amount of supplements and other fat splats they release. HERO also (generally..) has long times in between releases, and a shelf full of additional thin (usually) books to go with it.
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Post by Abaddon » Fri Aug 17, 2007 9:22 am

Yeah I think they are milking us for money. Jon, you are getting my money one way or another, I would just rather be using it for Warhammer stuff than ANOTHER rulebook. I might as well light a cigar with my 3.0 edition books now. Getting a new set of DnD books is like getting a new girlfriend, its all exciting and cool for about 2 months and then you realize you were at the same place as before but with a lot less money.

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Post by kbm99 » Fri Aug 17, 2007 9:25 am

Cripple X wrote:
Hardly. I was just making the point that GW revisions aren't as expensive as a Core Rules Update. Your models don't become obsolete, just because new ones are released.
Chaos Dwarfs, anyone?

GW milks their customer base for all they are worth. And it's a good thing, too - notice how many other fantasy miniatures games are out there? Notice how big their player base is, how many tournaments they promote, how many models and armies they have available?
Cripple X wrote:I agree with you about the core rulebooks Jon, it just seems to me that WotC is abusing the shit out of it to make money. Three sets of Core rules in eight years? It just seems to be getting out-of-hand. Just when you've finally memorized all of those obscure rules, we change 'em!
WOTC exists to make money. Complaining that they are doing stuff to make money is nonsensical. If WOTC stops making money, they'll go the way of TSR, and someone else will end up owning D&D.

I agree with you that the release of 3.5 put a little bit of a bad taste in most folk's mouths. 3.5 is, in many ways, what 3.0 should have been, and my guess is that if 3.5 had never been released, you wouldn't be as unhappy about 4.0 coming out next year. On the other hand, it might be that if 3.5 hadn't been released, 4.0 would have come out LAST year, so who knows.
Cripple X wrote:I'd buy their splatbooks if they were worth it, but a lot of the one's I have (mostly 3.0) were not very balanced and definately lacked an editor! That said, I do own a few Eberron books and definately like their quality. If WotC would put out more quality material, they wouldn't have to revise the rules so frequently.
You should check out the stuff they've been doing lately. I don't think anyone here would argue that the soft-cover splatbooks were a disaster, but that was almost ten years ago. WOTC has come a long way since, and the more recent product has been top-notch. The Complete Arcane, Magic item Compendium, Book of Nine Swords and others. Good stuff. I also agree with you about the Eberron setting, high quality stuff all.

But as Jon points out, not everyone will buy settings, adventures, and so forth. Core rulebook sales are the backbone of the D&D business, and like it or not, D&D is still pretty much the flagbearer of the hobby.

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Post by kbm99 » Fri Aug 17, 2007 9:45 am

NegativeK wrote:D&D really is a bit of the exception to the RPG genre. Smaller game lines (pretty much everything _except_ D&D) release core rules publications much less frequently - but they generally release other essentials on a regular basis.
GURPS is averaging one new edition every 5 years. HERO system is on it's 5th Edition (5.5th, actually) since 1981, -- also about one new edition every 5 years. Vampire, Werewolf et al are on their 3rd Edition since 1991 - and they not only changed rules, they blew up the entire campaign setting in 2004, thus "forcing" people to buy not only new core rules but all new source materials as well.

Now, it's true that a lot of smaller-press games have not revised nearly as often. Tunnels and Trolls. Dragonquest. Rolemaster. Of course, those publishers are all out of business, and most of those game were not that popular to begin with, so that's not really a good comparison.

D&D, on the other hand, has gone through 3 full editions (and two incremental updates) since 1979. If you go back to the beginning, when TSR was pretty much inventing the role-playing hobby, you could argue for 4 editions - since 1974. In May of next year, that would make 5 editions in 34 years. That's actually slower than the pace of the principle competition, though since WOTC took the reigns they have shortened the product life-cycle. If you count the 2nd edition re-release and 3.5 as full revisions, they are releasing new editions at roughly the same rate as the competition - one every five years.

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